Episode 1: Fruit of the Spirit: The Root of the Fruit: A Conversation with Natalie Brand

We're thrilled to be kicking off our season in the Fruit of the Spirit by welcoming back Natalie Brand onto the podcast, as we begin by considering the root of the fruit, and why understanding our union with Christ is so essential for this season. Natalie is a writer and Bible teacher. She has authored several books, including ‘Priscilla, Where Are You? A Call to Joyful Theology’ and ‘The Good Portion: Salvation’. She has a Ph.d in systematic theology from the University of Wales and lectures in theology.

• Questions to Dig into over a Cup of Tea

  1. What's been your experience of studying the Fruit of the Spirit in the past?

  2. How does being united with Christ shift how we view the fruit of the Spirit?

  3. Take some time to praise God for our union with Christ, and all the riches that flow from that.

• Sponsorship Details

  This episode is sponsored by Moody Publishers.

  A Christian publisher, they aim to resource the church’s work of discipling all people, with titles spanning from Bible commentary and reference to spiritual and relational growth.
  

• Episode Transcript

  The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.

  Sarah: You're listening to the Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea podcast, the Bible Study podcast for everyday life. Felicity lives in the US, whilst I, Sarah live in the UK and we're here for a 20 minute burst of Bible chat over a cup of tea and an English style biscuit as we open up the Bible and drive it to our hearts. Usually we're making our way through a specific book of the Bible, but this season we're diving deep into the fruit of the spirit together. We're kicking off the season by talking with our good friend Natalie Brand, a writer and Bible teacher who is going to help us get our bearings in Galatians where we hear of the fruit of the Spirit and then consider how and why union with Christ is fundamental to understanding the fruit of the Spirit. This is a meaty conversation rich in theological truths and language and it's so worth your time as we prime ourselves for our deep dive over the next few weeks. Whether you've been listening for a while or have just found us, we are so pleased you're here.

  Before we get into today's episode, we wanna take a moment to share who we're partnering with this season. We always choose our partnerships with sponsors really carefully, and in conversation with them, we handpick resources that we hope you'll enjoy as much as we do. This season, we're grateful to be partnering with Moody Publishers, and we're looking forward to sharing some great resources with you. This week, I wanna tell you about 52 Weeks in the Word by Trillia Newbell. Reading through the Bible in a year can feel daunting. It can be hard to know how or where to start, and the question of whether you'll ever make it past Leviticus looms large, doesn't it? Last year I used 52 Weeks in the Word by Trillia Newbell and it's been a really helpful aid. The readings are split into manageable chunks, either to read in one go or through the course of a day, and each week there's a rest and reflect day to dig a little deeper into something you've read that week. Whether you dip into this book or use it to journey through the Bible, it's a helpful resource for anyone keen to take in the breadth of the Bible story at whatever pace works for you.

  Now, let’s get to our conversation with Natalie, we really hope you enjoy it.

  Felicity: We're delighted to welcome back Natalie Brand to come and chat with us here. She's an author, a Bible teacher, an all-around good egg who we love chatting with about all things Jesus. And we're excited to do that today. Welcome Natalie, great to have you with us.

  Natalie: Thank you very much, Felicity. Thank you Sarah for having me.

  Felicity: Well, here we are kicking off the fruit of the spirit season. We're gonna be dwelling on the fruit of the spirit, but a huge part of this is dwelling on Jesus because to study the fruit of the spirit is to study Jesus who embodies every fruit that's listed in Galatians five. And so we're really excited for this season. Lord has been doing a work in our heart. We're praying for the hearts of all those who listen. But really before we get into that Natalie, the question is, how do you feel about fruity? I mean, fruity, fruity. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna give Sarah the credit for this pun.

  Sarah: Yes, embrace it!

  Natalie: Yeah I knew this was coming because I see where Sarah leans on her teas and yeah I'm sorry to say no no just no fruit teas

  Sarah: No, just a blanket, no!

  Natalie: Mint tea as far as I will stretch Maybe straight from the garden, there you go. Perhaps in bygone days I grew some mint and actually would throw it in some hot water. Does that count? It's not a fruit, I give you. No. But it's like the Florentina biscuit. So could you stretch it there? You know, that wasn't a biscuit, was it? Yeah.

  Sarah: No, you're right. yeah, there's flecks here though, isn't there? I mean, the mint is a plant, so it's come from a seed, it's the fruit of the seed. Let's leave it there.

  Natalie: Yes, yeah, let's leave it there. So no, I'm on decaf tea, but what have you guys got biscuits today? What biscuits are you eating? No biscuits? Because January, nobody touches biscuits.

  Felicity: We got sent some Australian Tim Tam biscuits just before Christmas, which is like just tempting me in the cupboard. But we're actually recording this before breakfast in my time zone, so I thought that a biscuit wasn't quite appropriate actually for a pre-breakfast snack, but maybe, you know.

  Natalie: you're right that was wise yeah

  Sarah: Other than tea, we want to spend the majority of this conversation talking about our union with Christ. And Natalie, you're here to help us do that. We're so thankful for you coming on again to do that. And really how our union with Christ impacts our pursuit with the fruit of the Spirit. But before we get there, we're going to head to Galatians briefly. And Felicity, I wonder whether you can just give us a little insight into the Galatians context that Paul is writing to you because he writes the words, he writes this kind of list of the free spirit in Galatians chapter 5. But Felicity, give us a bit of an overview of Galatians before we get into the actual verses.

  Felicity: Yes, well, why don't I just read the fruit of the spirit verses, which I'm sure we are all familiar with, but here we go. It's in chapter five of Galatians, verse 22. And Paul writes, but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control against such things there is no law. And this comes towards the end, in fact, really very near the end of the letter and all the way through the letter, we have a bit of a kind of an argy-bargy between flesh and spirit. So Paul is really quite strongly seeking to persuade the Galatians that they are no longer of the flesh. They're no longer of the law they are those who are walking by the Spirit and he's kind of taking apart all their reasons as to why they might be pursuing really the things that they were pursuing when they were Jewish when they weren't following Christ. They were of the flesh it was all about what you do is all about and following the law that was given to Moses back in the day and but because of Jesus they are now in the spirit and in chapter 2 verse 20 I think this verse really hits it he says I've been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me the life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me so there's been a change he's really persuading them of this change that's happened so then when we get to chapter 5 and when he speaks about this fruit the spirit just a few sentences up there he says you verse 16 therefore live by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. And so we have this shift that's happened. We are now of the Spirit. And I think that's the context. We've got Jesus embodied in us, living through us by the Spirit. We therefore keep in step with the Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit. Natalie, there’s a bit of a broad sweep on our union in Christ in Galatians, but could you help us then flesh out the pictures Paul uses to describe that union in this letter?

  Natalie: Yes, yes. So just to start with, Paul is utterly obsessed with the union with Christ, isn't it? Isn't he? It pervades all of his letters. And union with Christ is, to him, the basic identity and status of the Christian, of the faith-filled and it's helpful to look at it through Galatians because you see that it's typical of Paul. He writes of being about in Christ throughout, but also we can trace some of the characteristics of union with Christ through the letter. So chapter two, obviously, where you looked in read, so that key verse in verse 20. But in chapter two, in verse four, he talks about freedom. These within the Galatian Church are preaching a false gospel and they're trying to rub the believers of their freedom in Christ. That's not anything to be missed. It's a very strong theme throughout the letter, particularly towards the end and these people who are teaching this false law-driven gospel are seeking to enslave the Christians to the law again, as you just said. But this freedom in Christ, he says, because union with Christ is the ultimate freedom. It is the highest freedom a human can experience. As John says, and even in this letter we see it in Paul, the son has set us free. So that is a really basic but so helpful kind of umbrella term for union with Christ that it is our freedom it is the sin is freedom because we are justified in Christ and no longer under law no longer do we have any guilt or condemnation and then like you said in Galatians 2 v 20 union with Christ here I have been crucified with Christ is that believe is union in Christ death, Paul really isn't very British here, is he? I have been crucified with Christ. You get this literal image of Paul next to Jesus on bleeding and crucified on Calvary. It's really a very vivid picture. He's going straight to the jugular on that and how we take this is that we have died as believers. We have died and we have been buried with Christ. Paul is saying that in faith, when we believe upon Jesus, Jesus' death becomes our death. But Jesus isn't just in the grave. He's no longer in the grave. He is alive. He's resurrected. So that's why Paul then goes on to say, is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. If Jesus wasn't resurrected, it would be, it is no longer I who live, my saviour's in a tomb. There's no hope. But instead it's, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Because not only have we been crucified with Christ, but our resurrection, his resurrection becomes our resurrection so his death becomes our death in union with Christ his resurrection becomes our resurrection and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me and I think this is where you see kind of Paul pull out into his general theology of union with Christ and how it pervades everything you know here you've got I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God it's reminiscent of Colossians 3 v1 to 4 that we're raised with Christ Paul says you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God and he says Christ who is your life so union with Christ means that Christ is our life like it's epic it's ultimate it's cosmic it's it's eternal and this union is a faith-filled Holy Spirit forged union and we see all this as you as you alluded to velocity later on in the in the letter Galatians 5 through the through the fruit of the Spirit but at the end there in verse 24 those who belong to Jesus so because you belong to Jesus you have crucified the sinful nature so he's saying he's been crucified to Christ now he's saying because you've been crucified with Christ and you belong to Jesus you have to crucify the sinful nature as you said Felicity so so so helpful because that's the playing out of the fact that we are you know crucified with with the Lord in many ways the Holy Spirit refuses us to King Jesus his death becomes our death his resurrection becomes our resurrection and so therefore therefore is what Galatians 5 is all about, isn't it? Therefore walk by the Spirit. And we see the theme just briefly, we see it all the way through the letter. Adoption is secured by union with Christ. We meet children of God in verse 27 we're baptised into Christ we put on Christ we have shared union with Christ because we're in union with one another verse 28 of chapter 3 there is neither Jew nor Greek nor slave nor free nor male or female for you are all one in Christ Jesus so because we belong to Jesus we also belong to one another and we have full union with one another yeah it's very powerful stuff you get this whole feeling of the whole letter that we belong to Jesus and he belongs to us.

  Sarah: So great that isn't it and Natalie I love this because this is kind of yeah we know you to be one who gets so excited about these things and it's just wonderful to hear you pull that out for us. Give us a flavour of why this thrills your heart, not just when you're kind of studying the word and studying Galatians here like this, but on a Monday morning, on a Wednesday evening, like when things are frayed at the end of the week, why does this thrill your heart then in the kind of pressure points of your week?

  Natalie: Sarah such a good question. Why is union with Christ thrilling? Because union with Christ is the gospel. It is our salvation. We're not saved by a religion or a confession or a philosophy. We are saved by a person, the person Jesus Christ. And everything hangs in the gospel. Everything hangs on us being fused to Jesus. Otherwise, and forgive me if you've heard me say this before, otherwise Calvary suspended in time and in continent in a place and a time alien from us. Calvary cannot touch us unless the Holy Spirit fuses us to Jesus by faith because of faith. Faith is the instrument that he uses. So, union with Christ makes Jesus his work, his person, his righteousness ours and that is the gospel. So, union with Christ isn't just a part of the gospel, it is the gospel. We belong to Jesus as we've said and he belongs to us. We possess Christ. I love it in Heidelberg, The Heidelberg starts with, what is my only hope in life or death? And my only hope in life or death that I am not my own but belong body and soul to my Saviour Jesus. So this is life and death for the believer that we belong to Jesus. So it is the gospel, it is our very lives, it is our Monday morning and it is our Friday night. It is, that's what Paul is saying, the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God. It shapes, it informs, impacts everything we do, everything we make of our lives, everything that we are is not even just about Jesus, but is Jesus. That's why Paul says, for me to live as Christ and to die is gain. And so Monday mornings and isn't it funny it's always Monday mornings isn't it? And you say Natalie you're always banging on about union with Christ you're always writing about union with Christ but to be honest I'm not I don't get up on a Monday morning and think my heart thrills I'm in union with Christ I wish it did but I'm not thrilled by union with Christ enough on Mondays I'm desperate for coffee I'll be honest not for Christ I'm distracted by fruit tea isn't gonna get you through the week. You're desperate for fruit tea because that's gonna get you through the week. But we're distracted, aren't we, by the tasks of the week. We're just stressed and we're stressed. And I have to personally have to fight and preach to myself, have to remind myself over and over again that my to-do list for the week is not my first reality, it's my union with Christ. Like we said, that to live is Christ.

  Felicity: That is so profound, even as you're just saying those words, that this is the gospel and that the all-encompassing nature of what it is to be in Christ. Even just to dwell on that a bit, it's just gonna be a little, ooh, a little shiver of like, wow, this is so significant, isn't it? And you're right, we do get distracted. We don't talk about it enough. We don't think about it enough. As we are embarking on this season where we're studying the fruit of the Spirit, we want to grow to be more like Jesus as we do that. And even as you're just giving a brief kind of excitement in that, then it's beginning to literally put a flesh on this fruit. And what the, can you just really just simply outline, what is the connection between being united with Christ and growing in the fruit of the Spirit? Because I think, more often than not, we talk about the fruit of the Spirit in quite a detached, kind of separate entity. That's just a list that we memorise and that is kind of like over here, a checklist maybe. But we want to really move this back into the realm of Christ. Like what is the impact? Union with Christ, fruit of the Spirit, how does that help us pursue these things?

  Natalie: Yeah. That's such a helpful question. Like you say, we put it on a mug, we put it on Instagram, we moralise too quickly, we don't see Christ in the fruit of the Spirit enough. So, so helpful, Felicity. The fruit of the Spirit is simply then, if we strip it all down, is the fruit of being united to Christ, isn't it? If the Spirit is the one fusing us to King Jesus and he indwells us as we are united to Jesus, then the fruit of both his indwelling that unites us to Christ is making us like the one we're united to. So the fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of us being united to Christ. The fruit of the Spirit belongs to and is named after the Spirit, the bond of our union. So it's his, it's his agency, it's his stuff. He's the one working out in us. He is the power of God in us to make us more like Jesus, to make us more like the one we are united to. So the very Spirit that unites us to Jesus makes us like the one we are united to. God sent the church at Pentecost, spirit of Christ, for its sanctification so it may be a bride, holy and blameless. And isn't that just so what pervades all of the New Testament that the gospel exists for our holiness, the gospel exists to bring us back to God. Ephesians 1, are predestined to be holy and spotless. And as you read, Felicity, the fruit of the spirit earlier, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. There was never a time when the Lord Jesus wasn't all of these things in the Gospels before he even came to earth as a baby, the pre-existent Christ, and he will always be like that when we're with him in heaven. He will be the fruit, the perfect embodiment of the fruit of Spirit. So this is the very character of God isn't it? In the New Testament, in the Old Testament, perhaps we see this in the Leviticus, we see this as the Father looking to his people Israel and saying, be holy, because I am holy. But in the New Covenant, united to Jesus, we then see in the face of Christ, him coming to us and saying, be holy, be holy because I am holy and that's such a powerful picture. You think about your Lord Jesus, our beautiful Saviour who we love, who we thirst for in all his beauty and all his glory coming to you as his individual person who makes up the bride, as his believer, as his child, as his co-heir, he says, be holy because I am holy. So now the challenge is for us to wear Christ's righteousness. We're wearing it in our justification, but to actually wear it, to be actually holy like he is. And that's what the spirit is working out in us. That's why we are saved, because God wants us to be fit for heaven. And so he makes us holy like himself. And what a grace that is. He could just forgive us, but he doesn't. He makes us spotless and both corporately and individually as a church.

  Sarah: So helpful, and so helpful just that phrase that, yeah, the Spirit makes us and works to make us like the one we're united to, like that you cannot separate that work, can you? You cannot separate our union with Christ to what the Spirit is then doing in our life. But, Nathalie, let's just kind of tease that out a bit in terms of, there's a tension here, isn't there, between what the Spirit does and what we do. It's a gift. We know that the Spirit is a gift from the Lord. We can't manufacture it. We can't tape it on. And yet we are kind of called to strive and train ourselves in godliness and to put to death sin and to pursue the fruit of the Spirit. So what does it look like to hold that tension?

  Natalie: Yeah, yeah, so good. You see, I noticed when I was reading through Galatians in preparation that it's there even in the text, you see the tension. Galatians 5, 16, what Felicity read. But I say walk by the Spirit. So there it is, scripture, the Holy Spirit through the person of Paul is commanding us, challenging us, commending us to walk in the Spirit. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh for these are to one another to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit and it's like, hold on a second, hold on, you just told us to walk by the Spirit and now you're telling us that we're led by the Spirit. So you see that tension even there before you've even hit the fruit, which is just so mind boggling. I find it so helpful here to see what theologians have kind of unpacked about what sanctification is. Sanctification is a work of faith it's not of the flesh it's of the spirit but here very much so in Galatians 5 we see the fruit of the spirit is our sanctification being worked out in faith but being worked out in the flesh you know we there is this as you said argy bargy felicity between faith and flesh but what's so profound about the fruit of the spirit is that God actually seeks to change our flesh and work in our flesh and in our bodies and in our very lives. So we're called to walk by the Spirit but we are led by the Spirit too, so both. And so here we see in Paul's lettering to the Galatians that it's a cooperative work and this is theologians like to use that it's that we together with the Spirit work together. God doesn't want us to be passive as we become holy, as we become more like Jesus. We see this in places like Philippians 2 v12, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It's not that Paul is saying in Philippians, Sonny, you've got to work for your salvation. It's not that Sonny, all his theology has fallen to the man. He's completely changed his mind and we're not saved by grace. But it's that Paul is saying you need to work out your salvation. You need to work cooperatively. You need to walk with the spirit. This is the language of Galatians and put to death the deeds of the flesh and Philippians 2 verse 12 and 13 is so helpful work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works in you, there we have it the spirit is working in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure so there's the tension again work it out but God is working in you and and I think this this works itself out very practically on a Monday morning on a Friday night on Wednesday whenever it may be even on a Sunday morning when you walk into church and you don't want to be there that we would thirst for righteousness that's what Christ that's how Christ says it on the Sermon of the Mount that we thirst for righteousness we thirst for the very righteousness that is God. God is the true definition of righteousness. All righteousness starts with him. All holiness and spotless purity starts with him. But we thirst after that. We thirst after the nature and the character of God in that way. And as we run to righteousness, the spirit will work in us. It's kind of like that mutual work that you. It's that mutual work, it? When I was thinking about this, was thinking, how can you, this but I was kind of thinking that if you rub your hands together maybe it because I was chilly up here as I was preparing but if you rub your hands together you've got two things going in different directions but doing the same thing and there is heat and I think it's a little bit like that on a very basic level that when we are working when we are running to righteousness and the spirit is working in us, making us run to righteousness. Both us and the spirit working together in that tension creates heat and the heat that we see is God giving us a desire for holiness as we work hard. We see a progress in sanctification and holiness. see encouragement. We see we fight battles. We can overcome sin. And as that happens, we have even more desire for holiness and even desire for righteousness and even more hate of sin. So there is heat as both we and the Holy Spirit work together in our lives. I don't know what you guys thought. Perhaps you can come up with a better illustration.

  Felicity: Ah , no, that's a really helpful way of thinking about it. And that word cooperative, and even just that idea that we would then together with the spirit be moving more towards directions, which as we say that really we're talking then about bearing the fruit of the spirit, aren't we? So that is the means by which through this cooperative work between the spirit and us, and that's not equal, is it? I think that's one of the things which, you know, it's not that we're just, then the spirit really needs us to just pull our weight. Actually, this is all the work of God, of the spirit in us that moves us in that direction that we might then bear the fruit of the spirit. So Natalie, that's such a helpful just, well, and profound. I feel like my head is being just kind of blown a little bit as you've been describing these things. In the best of ways, lots to dwell on. But we want to land it. So what does this then look like in your everyday life for Natalie Brand as you seek to grow in the fruit of the spirit? How does this then really, how does the rubber hit the road? In that sense because what we really want to be pulling through all this wonderful truth and explanation that you've been giving us and explaining for us how does that then land it in terms of bearing the fruit of the spirit what does it look like in your everyday life

  Natalie: Yeah, I think. Just kind of generally and then let me then go micro for a bit. But on a macro level it's commit to your sanctification that I have to commit, I have to know that I'm not going to get holy unless I some work in. Like I can't be passive about this. The Lord commands me all the way through the New Testament. If you look at it, most of the New Testament is actually, other than the gospels, the apostles writing to the church to be holy, to be like Jesus and sound doctrine produces sound lives. And so that's why we're here. That's why the Lord hasn't called us yet because he wants us to become more and more like Christ. So this is why I'm living and breathing every day to glorify God and to become more like Christ. So for me it means on a Sunday morning to sit under the preached word with an expectation that that word is going to change me. I'm not going to just sit there and have to, know Sundays are hard work. I'm not going to sit there just thinking passively. I'm going to listen to the Word and I'm going to trust that both Word and Spirit together are going to do surgery on my life and then I'm going to leave and make some changes. Every day of the week it means we need to go to our Bibles daily. If we're going to thirst for holiness and thirst for righteousness we cannot neglect our Bibles. We don't read our Bibles because it's, you know, you're an evangelical. It's expected of you. But we read it, we go to it in the private places of our lives because we're thirsting for we're thirsting for all these beautiful fruits of the Spirit that embody that body, are the beauty and are the beauty of Christ. So I think seeking the fruit of the Spirit is looking where there is habitual sin in your life. And so you have to ask yourself, do you lack love? Do you lack patience? Do you lack kindness? Are you selfish? Are you harsh? Do you lack self control? And so that's the challenge, isn't it, of the fruit of the spirit to question ourselves, to be aggressive with ourselves even. I love the way that Piper talks about gutsy guilt. So we need to look at our sin in the face and say, OK, I'll be rid of it and I'm going to be rid of it in this way. Something that has worked itself out in my life, especially in relation to the root of the spirit is that last one self-control which can pervade so many areas of life can't it? I don't know about you guys but I find with being a parent sometimes it's really hard to control one's words and one's tone and that over the last two or three years of my life has been I think probably the most obvious space where I've been trying to aggressively work out my my salvation with fear and trembling. And so, and it's not just self-control because it's there as well. If you think about our words, you think of gentleness too, which is ironically the one of the fruit of the spirit. When I used to teach my girls that the I'd always forget out gentleness. my kids were like, mommy, you've forgotten gentleness. And I'd be like, okay. So being self-controlled in my words, being gentle in my words, memorizing for me, was memorizing Proverbs 15 verse four, a gentle word is a tree of life. Looking at, looking at, look at that thing in the fruit of the spirit that you struggle with and go everywhere all over scripture about that thing and put it all in your head hide it in your heart and in your head until you can get rid of it until you can by the grace of God and by the power of the Holy Spirit conquer and make moves to conquer it. Yeah, think, I don't know about you guys, but for me it's been, it's looking at habitual sin and aggressively attacking it, hungering and thirsting for righteousness in that way.

  Sarah: So helpful, Natalie, so helpful. And yeah, we are really looking forward to kind of digging into all of this more as the season goes on. So you can expect that we'll be dwelling on Jesus as we seek to grow in the fruit of the Spirit. We're really excited for that. Natalie, would you pray for us as we close in anticipation of all that's to come in this season?

  Natalie: Thank you, yes I’d love to. Father God, we thank you so much for our Galatians, we thank you so much for the fruit of the Spirit, Lord. I pray that we wouldn't see this in this season as more morality, more things to heap upon our heads, but Lord, that we would see the face of Jesus, the beauty of Jesus in these nine holy characteristics of you, Lord, taken from your very nature, your very character. So Lord, help us, we need your help. As Felicity said, it is asymmetrical, we lean on you entirely but Lord work in us, in us, pleasure to do a sanctifying work in us, make us like Jesus, help us we pray, help us to run to righteousness, to thirst for your righteousness, your holiness, that you would help us live by the Spirit, to walk by the Spirit, help us to know what that means every single moment of the day, help us to crucify our passions and our desires to live to Christ, to put on Christ. Lord, I thank you so much for this podcast. I thank you so much for how Felicity and Sarah unpack your Word so helpfully and change our hearts. And we pray for your help as we do this. In Jesus' name, Amen.

  Felicity: Amen. Thank you Natalie. What a joy to chat with you and to have lots to chew on in relation to Union with Christ and we're looking forward to the season to come. So thank you.

  Sarah: Absolutely, do check out the resources in our show notes, particularly if you want to think more about Union with Christ, we've got a couple of recommendations there. And then head to our website to find all the latest info on our upcoming season. And we will see you next Friday as we dig into the first fruit, love, together. We'll see you then. Bye bye.

  Felicity: Bye Bye.

  Sarah: We're really thankful for Moody Publishers who are sponsoring this season.

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