Episode 1: Micah: Scripture Memory: A Conversation with Glenna Marshall
We’re kicking off season 12 of our bible study podcast by interviewing author and Bible teacher Glenna Marshall, on the topic of memorising scripture. With all the why’s, and how’s, we hope you’re encouraged as much as we are by this conversation!
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This episode is sponsored by Moody Publishers.
A Christian publisher, they aim to resource the church’s work of discipling all people, with titles spanning from Bible commentary and reference to spiritual and relational growth.
You can purchase your copy of Glenna Marshall’s book from 10ofThose. Use the code TEA40 and you'll get 40% off the retail price.
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The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Sarah:
You're listening to the Two Sisters in a Cup of Tea podcast, the Bible Study podcast for everyday life. We're here for a 20 minute burst of Bible chats over a cup of tea and an English style biscuit as we make our way through a Bible book over the course of the season and drive it to our hearts. Whether you've been listening for a while or have just found us, we're so pleased you're here. Before we get stuck into Micah this season, we've got a bonus episode for you on the topic of memorizing scripture with the author and Bible teacher, Glenna Marshall.
Glenna's newest book, titled Memorizing Scripture, The Basics, Blessings and Benefits of Meditating on God's Word, has been a book that we've both thoroughly enjoyed and been challenged by over the last few months. This episode is sponsored by Moody Publishers, who have published Glenna's book. We love many of their resources that are helping to equip the church. Do click the link in our show notes and pick up a copy of Glenna's book after the episode. But for now, let's get going. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
Felicity:
Welcome to Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea. My name is Felicity and I live in the States and I'm here as ever with my sister Sarah. She's in the UK and we are excited to welcome Glenna Marshall here to join us as we chat about scripture memorisation. Now, Glenna, tell us where are you? How do you spend your time? Obviously when you're not, it's about nine o 'clock in the morning with you, isn't it? So you're morning cup of tea with us, but...
Glenna:
That's right. So I am in the southern part of Missouri, right? Kind of smack in the middle of the U S and as we were talking earlier, we are suffocating from the heat currently longing for fall. yeah, so I am a pastor's wife. My husband and I were both born and raised in Tennessee and moved to Missouri 19 years ago for him to pastor our church, which is where we have been ever since. So we are sort of doing rural church ministry and we have two boys, they are 16 and nine, so I'm kind of wedged right in the middle of elementary school and high school. I have a high school junior, so he will finish in two years. I can't talk about it or I'll start crying. So while they're in school, I do as much writing as I can. That's how I spend most of my time during the day when they're not here. And so I'm very thankful to have published some books and have a few more in front of me.
Felicity:
I love your writing, I really think, I would highly recommend get into Glenna's writing. It's really easy to read and biblically grounded. It's brilliant, we've both really enjoyed this script and memorization. But before we get into that though, tell us, does tea and a biscuit with a snap? I know you're kind of south, aren't you? So you might be thinking gravy.
Sarah:
What is a biscuit for you?
Glenna:
Right, so growing up in Tennessee, a biscuit is like what you eat with breakfast. It's the fluffy bread. Unfortunately, as a gluten -free person, I have not had a biscuit in years, an American biscuit. So I am a tea drinker during the winter in the evenings. I will break out, I've got a box of like organized herbal teas so that I do that when the weather gets cold, but the rest of the time, like a true American, I am a hardcore coffee drinker. That's so, yeah, and I, during the holidays, when the weather is cool, I have this gluten -free ginger snap recipe that makes, it is the just snappiest, crispest cookie and so full of warm spices. I look forward to making them, but we only eat them during the holidays.
Sarah:
You're very welcome Glenna, even though you're drinking coffee right now.
Felicity:
Hahaha! Yeah.
I should get on that train. Yes please do!
Sarah:
You should get that, yeah.
Glenna:
I'll send you the recipe.
Sarah:
Good. Well, Glenna, we are delighted to have you here today to talk about memorizing scripture. And I think it's kind of worth saying off the bat that Felicity and I kind of sit in very different places when it comes to this. So I started memorizing scripture during COVID. That was when I kind of began my journey and I've really, really enjoyed it. So it's been kind of three or four years of that becoming more and more of a part of kind of daily life for me. Felicity, you have a different story on that.
Felicity:
I mean, I have a story. I feel like I'm at the beginning of the story. I've read Glenna's book, and having lived in America, what I find culturally actually is that in America, scriptural memorization is given more air time. People talk about it more. Over in England, not so much. I don't know whether that's true. That's been my experience. And so I've read your book, and I've been encouraged by others along the way.
Sarah:
Yes.
Felicity:
and I'm persuaded but I have yet to do anything about it. So I've tried. I even stuck up like all of Philippians one in my shower after reading your book. then that was just too ambitious, obviously, obviously. My husband was like, You've never done anything like this before. Why are we going for like a full A4 page? So I've got the desire, I you know, I find it very hard to get the rhythm going, I think. Yeah.
Glenna:
You, Hahaha, mmm
Sarah:
Well, what I love about your book, Lena, is that you, the book, wonderfully encouraged and challenged both of us, even though we sit in quite different places on this. And hopefully for those listening into this conversation, that is an encouragement that actually, yeah, what we're gonna be talking about today, whether you've never thought about this before or whether this is a kind of life -giving part of your week. Yeah, there's something for everyone in this conversation. But you've written other books. Let's start with the question of why did you choose to major on this discipline for this book?
Yeah, why was it something that you really wanted to write about?
Glenna:
Well, I think anyone who writes a book, this has been true of everything I've written. It's something that I lived first and then I couldn't stop talking about it because it had such an impact on my life. So I thought instead of bothering all my friends and family more than I already am on this subject, I'm going to write a book on it because that's what writers do. And so I grew up in the church in the South. There was this program called Bible drill. Some churches called it sword drill.
Felicity:
Yeah
Glenna:
And it was this program where the churches would have the children of the church learn maybe two dozen scripture verses and then all of the books of the Bible in order. And then they would take them around to other churches and make them compete with other children. It's very odd that we did this, but that's what we did. It was, it was. And then about fourth grade, you know, I'm, you know, 10 years old, it was over. And that was the last.
Sarah:
Wow, yeah.
Felicity:
extreme.
Glenna:
I devoted any part of my life to scripture memorization well then you fast forward to I'm in my mid to late 30s kind of in the trenches of parenting and really struggling with the sin of anger and Finding that I was coming to the Lord and confessing just this simmer I would simmer simmer simmer then boil over at my husband or my kids or just be internally stewing all the time and I would come to the Lord and confess every day and feeling like, I mean, do I even know Jesus? I cannot get past this area of sin. I cannot find victory over it. And I was praying one day and it just, the Lord brought to mind one of those verses I memorized in that program as a child, Psalm 119, 11, I will hide your word in my heart so that I may not sin against you. And it sort of crystallized in that moment that scripture memorization, hiding God's word in our heart was a weapon for fighting sin and so I thought, I really have nothing to lose, so I'm gonna try this. So I got out a sheet of paper, and I remember I used a purple Sharpie, and I wrote, I think it was Psalm 46. It was something that was somewhat familiar to me, and so I thought I'm gonna start with a passage that's somewhat familiar, and I put it in a Ziploc bag and taped it to my shower wall because years ago a lady from church had told me that was a great way to memorize scripture. So I did that and then every day I would step in the shower and I would work on this Psalm and it took just a few weeks and then I moved on to Psalm 23, Psalm 1. I started with things that were familiar already just to sort of give myself a leg up because it felt very daunting.
Sarah: You, Mm
Glenna:
And I made it through several Psalms and then I thought I am going to try James because I know in James chapter 1 is the verse, the anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God. So I thought there are some things there for me to learn. I started with James 1 and then just ended up going through the entire book. And at this point, a couple of years have gone by that I've been slowly working on hiding these scriptures in my heart and it was the first time in my life that I began to see the sin of anger shrinking in my heart and in my actions. It was like you change what's in your head and in your heart and then therefore the overflow changes. And so giving scripture to my mind and my heart to just think on and meditate on and rolling those phrases over and over had a transformative effect on my life. And I began to see the benefits not just in fighting sin, but in how I spoke to other people and what forms of encouragement and sharing the gospel. it really magnified my view of God and His love for me. And I just, because it was so transformative, I was convinced, okay, this is a spiritual discipline that I am sold on for life. I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. This is not a race. This is all about the daily work of memorization. That's where the transformation happens and I feel like the church needs more just content, equipping, whatever you want to call it, the church needs more out there because in my research of how to memorize scripture, there was almost nothing out there at the time. And so I thought I'm going to write this book for the church because I know what a transformative effect it has had on me. And I really want that for the people of God. I think that we will be able to fight our sin more effectively when we hide God's word in our hearts. So that really was the impetus for the book, seeing it in my own life and wanting that for other people.
Felicity:
What a testimony of God's Word at work. It makes sense, doesn't it? We're always, on this podcast, we're always talking about how God works through his Word and so the value of being in the Word. And so it does make sense to then store it up in your heart. It sounds so sensible when you say it like that. It makes me think why...
Glenna:
It makes sense. Well, I mean, and when I realized, okay, Psalm 119, 11 has spoken to this very clearly. Why did I not do this before? I don't know why, but I feel like memorizing scripture is one of those spiritual disciplines that we all know we should do, but we're a little scared of it. You know, like fasting because of, we don't want to say no to food or drink. We want to just continue with, we don't want the pains of the things that feel hard. And so I think, then we use excuses like, I have a terrible memory or this just feels I don't have time to start something new. And so we give ourselves excuses when actually what we're doing is just missing a huge blessing.
Sarah:
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, we're denying ourselves of the riches, aren't we, and the benefit of hiding God's word in our heart. And it's just so helpful hearing that, because I think, know, as a Sunday school leader at our church, we, you know, we do memory verses with the kids, and yet that kind of stops come youth, you know, when the youth starts, and you just think, no, no, why? Like, why, you know, why should it stop then? And actually it's just, yeah, so beneficial. Now, I love, in your book as well, you talk about the kind of bridge from reading scripture.
Felicity:
And I think that...
Sarah:
to living it and that kind of memorizing it moved you from the study of God's word, which we're all about on this podcast, to actually affection for God. And just actually it was the kind of, yeah, going over these words over and over again, day after day that really kind of helped to move your heart and not just your mind to engage with the word. Just, yeah, really, really helpful.
Felicity:
I think that is the game changer, is the heart level thing that's going on here as we're seeking to memorize scripture, that it's not just a spiritual discipline, because I think that sometimes in my mind, spiritual disciplines are almost like a separate thing. Like, this is just what it is to be a Christian. I know spiritual disciplines are a good idea, but it's really helpful to draw, just really bring the two things together. Like, I'm very aware of my sinful heart, so this being a means of fighting sin in my life and ministering to my own heart, and that we have it, we have the word just here and I think but I think sometimes though that can be a I don't know in my head the voices that say well you've got the Bible all the time so why do you need to memorize it as well can you can you help help us with that kind of I think you're persuasive I think this is very persuasive to do it but but also I do have you know I've got five Bibles in my house why do I need to really memorize it when I can just grab it and have it
Glenna:
Right, I think there's a difference between going to the Bible for information and then going to the Bible for transformation. we do live in the most biblically rich times that I think have ever existed as far as access to scripture, especially living in the West I'm in front of me. I've got probably seven Bibles on a shelf and my husband as pastor has them in the original languages and we've got apps and you know your e -versions, your audio versions. It's such a biblically rich time and yet you can have all of those and not be transformed by God's Word if you're not regularly thinking deeply. And that's really what biblical meditation is, is thinking deeply about God's Word. If you go to Psalm 1 where the psalmist talks about the blessed happy man who says no to sin. And the way that he says no to sin is by delighting in God's law and meditating on it day and night. That word in Hebrew for meditate is, it literally translates to mumble aloud to oneself. So what he's doing with God's law is saying it aloud to himself over and over. And when you do that, you're thinking deeply. And I think that's different than just a cursory reading of scripture. There's something about rehearsing it over and over and over that causes you to think about, why that verb? Why that attribute of God? Why did God do it this way? What am I learning about Jesus from this short phrase where you were just doing deep examination of scripture? And I think that is different than just opening up a Bible and searching for a verse.
I think when you have thought deeply and rehearsed the words over and over, they just get embedded into your heart in a way that's different than reading. And I also find then that when you are going about your day and having conversations, the words that you've been turning over and over in your mind, they come out of your mouth and they come out in your actions and you're in a conversation with someone and you just it's like the Holy Spirit supplies the opportunity for you to use those words that you've been thinking over and over. And I just think that takes your Bible reading a step further. It's just a little deeper. And like I said earlier, it bridges what you're studying with how you're living throughout your day. So rather than just studying, closing your Bible, going throughout the day, I feel like meditating on scripture, rehearsing it, it just keeps it going all day long.
Felicity:
I love that. That's so desirable, isn't it? I think that's a very enticing... Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah:
Yeah. Okay, so we've got this desirable thing and we know that, we know that when we spend time in the Word as well, don't we? And yet in all the of, in all the throws of our days and for anyone who's listening to this and just thinking, I'm struggling even just to open my Bible, you know, just on a day -to -day basis and the thought of adding something else into that just feels very overwhelming. What would you say to them, say to Felicity even in that, like in that because actually that is probably where you're at as well in many senses, that kind of helps people get over that obstacle of just feeling like, gosh, this is just going be another thing to do, to actually embracing the gift of it.
Glenna:
I think that that is an obstacle thinking I don't have time for one more thing in my life and I don't have the margin in my head for one more thing in my life. Which is why I like to encourage people you're not going to create like a new time of your day where you do nothing but memorize scripture. Studies have shown that when you are learning something new the more details you bring into that process the easier it is to recall the thing that you're trying to memorize. So I recommend find a time in your day when your hands are busy but your mind is not. So maybe that's a commute to work or folding laundry or walking the dog or walking the children to school or something. And your hands are busy but your mind is free. And so you're just going to couple sort of habits stack if you will.
The practice of memorization was something that you're already doing on a regular basis and you will find with practice and with time that after a little while, your mind will immediately return to scripture memorization whenever you take up that task. It's sort of like you're training your brain to couple something together. So for me, taking a shower every day, I step in and I immediately, my brain doesn't do anything else except go to scripture memorization because I've been doing it for such a long time.
That's what, less than 10 minutes a day, less than 10 minutes of my day. I'm not sitting here for an hour and a half memorizing scripture. We have to live our lives. We have responsibilities at work. And so I just encourage you, start small, start with a passage that's already familiar or a couple of verses that you're somewhat familiar, maybe something your pastor has preached recently or something you've studied, something you're about to study with the group. If you guys are kicking off Micah, start with a passage from Micah and put it where you're gonna see it every day, and just work on one phrase at a time. And I like to stop at commas. Like a comma is just a phrase, it's a breath. I mean, it stops the sentence at just a breath. It's very short. You rehearse that for a few days until you've got it and then you move on. You don't have to memorize three verses in one day. I mean, you just, there's no race. You're not falling behind because it is.
The daily practice is where I think the Holy Spirit does that work of renewing our minds with His Word. And so you don't have to say, I'm so overwhelmed, I need to memorize the entire book of Micah in six months. You don't have to. You can memorize three verses of Micah until you get them. And then you can move on from there. And I think it's taking, sort of taking your eyes off of the goal being recitation, because that's not the goal and letting the goal be, Lord renew my mind and transform my heart as I think on your word each day.
Felicity:
That's so helpful. That is so helpful. mean, really, having all of Philippians 1 stuck in my shower is not actually doing that. I think this might be a theme in life really. I know this is just script. It's like, go big or go home, which just actually doesn't really work in this kind of like Christian life context.
Sarah:
Yeah, I have to say though, that's been really, yeah, your book really kind of elevated what I was doing. So I had the Bible memory app, which I've been really benefiting from, but actually kind of learning to mumble the words out loud and learning to use that dead time with my mind. So for me, it's washing up because I feel like I'm in the washing up sink many times a day. And so coupling that activity together has meant that like many times a day I'm now...
Glenna:
Mm, I know.
Sarah:
I'm in Philippines 4 and I'm kind of there and it's part of my kind of, that's just part of the rhythm or, you know, I have half an hour walk back from school each morning and I haven't done that this summer, but you know, I'll get back into that. And it was just dead time where I'm just on a journey walking home, but actually starting to just kind of rehearse these things in your mind. It's amazing actually what comes back out. And as you say, the impact then for, yeah, from reading to living and that bridge that it takes, really, yeah, really, really helpful.
Felicity:
I think that's really evidence Sarah in watching you over the last three, four years that you've almost been surprised by these daily deposits. And then you're talking and then suddenly these Bible verses come out and you're like, well there they are.
Sarah:
Yeah, totally. It's just there.
Glenna:
love that. See, and I really, think that that is one of the things that you have to give it time. You know, like, I think we want an overnight effect. I memorized half of Philippians 1 .1. Why am I not different? You know, but like you were saying, Felicity, the Christian life does not lend itself towards quick growth and big metrics. I mean, that's just not how it is. And so that's one of the reasons I love the slowness of scripture memorization is it does in this very fast -paced instant gratification world that we live in, it forces you to slow down and think about God's word and to think on things you would have missed. And then with time, it changes you in a way that going fast just can't. I mean, I just think growth is slow on purpose. I think the Lord wants it that way in our lives. Teaches us patience and perseverance.
Sarah:
Absolutely.
Felicity:
And dependence on him in it. think that's the thing, isn't it? We pray and wait on the Lord to work through his word as we're in it. And that's in his timing and his process rather than my kind of sprint to the finish mode.
Sarah:
Yeah, but allowing, yeah, allowing yourself to see growth as well. So it took me three and a half years to memorize Ephesians. That felt like a pretty big slog. And that is the only thing I did. Yeah.
Felicity:
I just don't know how you have the concentration span, Three and a half years in one book!
Glenna:
Yeah
Sarah:
I know, I just kept going. was literally like a day, you know, a certain time until I did it. But Philippians, sorry, I can never say the word, Philippians is taken just six months. And I know it's a shorter book, but just seeing actually my muscle memory has got so much better over that time and my kind of capacity to do it day by day, it's like anything, isn't it? Practice does make progress, you do. And being able to look back and go, wow, Lord, that's...you know, that's cool and I'm looking forward to what's next in terms of how that continues. But as you say, just start, it's starting with that verse, isn't it? Starting with Psalm 46 verse one and encouraging your heart with that truth and being able to then use that to encourage someone else during that day or that week as well is just, it's such a gift, isn't it? To have that on your tongue, to be able to do that.
Felicity:
I think really encouraging to do it with, I think you talk about this in your book, Glenna, but doing it with other people as well, that just that, because I think, Sarah, I'm able to see how it's impacting you and to be able to say that to you. And so it's helpful to have other people in your kind of vicinity, isn't it, to see the progress and to see how it's going. And just encouraging.
Glenna:
I think that's helpful. It is. And I mean, I remember when I was memorizing Colossians, my husband and I were taking these early morning walks every day. So I would rehearse these long passages from Colossians for him while we walked. And I mean, when you are doing something with another person over scripture, I think whether it's a Bible study group or memorizing scripture together or just speaking it to one another for review, like I was doing with my husband, it just knits your hearts together too, in a way that is so beautiful because there's just nothing like a relationship being built up on God's Word. And so I encourage for accountability's sake or even just for encouragement, bringing in a friend or a spouse or your children who will memorize much faster than you do. And I mean, I've watched my kids because I've made them. I'm like, hey, we're memorizing scripture because this is mom's passion. And so they're so good and they're so fast. And I've watched even my teenager go on to memorize things on his own, just because for him now as a 16 year old, he's like, well, this is what we do. We're Christians. We memorize God's word because his word is important. And that's what I want for him, because I miss that as a child, you know, as a teenager.
Felicity:
I love that. And we're always encouraging people on this podcast to grab someone else and get the Bible open. And so this is just an extension of that in many ways, isn't it? Allow God to work through his word in these ways together. Well, Glenna, just so, so helpful. I feel encouraged. I was worried that I was going to feel a little kind of shamed in this. Not really, not really shame, just you know, a little kind of, but I feel encouraged. So thank you. I hope that for our listeners as well. Would you mind, Glenna, praying for us, for our listeners as just a thank you.
Glenna:
Absolutely. I would love that. And I just want to say to your listeners too, we don't want to ever be motivated by guilt or shame. We want to be motivated because God is good and His Word is a gift and He has given it to us to equip us for this Christian life. And I just know that if you will give it a try it will expand your view of God's care for you. There's no room for guilt there. So go to it for joy, if for nothing else. And so let's pray. Lord, I thank you so much for this time to discuss your word and the importance of it. And God, I just thank you that you didn't save us and then just leave us to our own devices, but rather you have promised to sanctify us and to make us holy so that on that day when we see you face to face, we will be glorified with you and finally unable to sin and pure and spotless. And I thank you that in the meantime, you have given us your church and your word and your spirit to equip us to stand firm through every, every drought and every storm and every trial. And I just pray for the listeners today that if memorization feels just like overwhelming and hard that Lord they would just be encouraged to try and that they would just feel the benefits of that of hiding your word in their heart right off the bat and that they will just grow in their love for you and their understanding of scripture. I pray that your Holy Spirit would just illuminate their hearts and their minds as they give time and space for your word to rule in their hearts. And I thank you Lord that you've just equipped us in this day and age to have such access to your word. And Lord I pray that you would just drive it down deep that it would be like a feast that we are welcome to every day and that we never tire from. We thank you for Jesus who is the word and I pray this in His name, Amen.
Sarah:
Thank you so much, Glenna. I've got to ask before we finish though, I mean have you, have you memorised anything like Micah or anything, you know, Old Testament prophets? Is that, is that a thing?
Glenna:
I have not done any Old Testament prophets. did a bunch of Psalms and then I did James and then I did Colossians because I was preparing to teach it. And then I moved to 1 Peter, which is where I have been for quite a while and I'm almost done. I am not sure where I'm gonna go next. I haven't decided. I would like to go to some Old Testament prophets. I'm a little intimidated, but there's so much poetry and imagery in the prophets that sometimes that they lend themselves well for memorization because you can add motions or think about metaphors and things like that to help you get the words down.
Felicity:
Hmm, well, challenge on. Deuteronomy? No, no. Don't do that!
Sarah:
Good. Yeah. Now, anyway, do pick up a copy of Memorizing Scripture by Glenna Marshall. We'll link to it in the show notes. Well worth a read. And Glennon, thank you again for your time. We so appreciate this conversation and we look forward to seeing everyone for the start of our Micah season this time next Friday. We look forward to seeing you then. Bye bye.
Felicity:
See you then, bye bye.
Sarah:
This episode has been sponsored by Moody Publishers.
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